Reed.co.uk is one of the UK’s leading careers marketplaces, connecting people to a world of career opportunities online. The business partnered with Godel in 2017 to help increase capacity, flexibility and resource for various areas of the business to overall improve the experience for Reed.co.uk’s customers.

In this episode of The Godel POD, our host Laura Ainscough, Service Delivery Manager at Godel is joined by Joshua Frank, Senior Delivery Manager and Thomas Sampson, Director of Technology at Reed.co.uk to discuss how delivery can affect a project’s success as well as the secret to a successful partnership.

This is an edited transcript, for more conversations on the latest in tech, subscribe to The Godel POD on Podbean and Spotify. Podcast jingle provided by the Hideout YouthZone.

Podcast transcript 

Laura Ainscough: Hi, everybody, and welcome to another episode of The Godel POD. My name is Laura Ainscough. I’m part of the service delivery team at Godel. So today’s quite a special day as this is our first video podcast. And I wanted to do it with two very special guests that I know I’ve tried to get on for a few months now. And here we’ve got Reed.co.uk and who I worked very closely with. So we’ve got Tom, director of technology here, and we’ve got Josh senior Delivery Manager. So yeah, don’t let me talk. Let me have a quick intro round for you guys. We’ll start off with Josh, and you know who you are and what you’re about.

Joshua Frank: Yeah, so I’m Josh Frank I’m a senior Delivery Manager here at Reed.co.uk. I’ve been with the business now for two years in January, actually. My key roles at the business here is to deliver the performance proposition Initiative and the job content management initiative, as well as being the account manager for the Godel partnership.

Thomas Sampson: So Thomas Sampson, Director of Technology at Reed, I’ve been here since June 2019. So four and a half years now it’s flown by. And my main responsibilities are for the product design engineering teams, when they see me working with yourself and with the delivery teams in that relationship, just making sure that we’re delivering the right things for our customers.

Laura Ainscough: Billiant, great introductions, guys. I know, obviously, we know what Reed.co.uk do but I suppose for our listeners, I don’t know if one of you can just do an introduction of what you guys are about really?

Thomas Sampson: Yeah. So we’re a job platform for users to find content that is really engaging for them and to find roles and opportunities, or whether that be career advice, or courses that help them to advance their career. So we look to improve lives through work. And that means for our work, we look to improve other users lives through work comes from candidates who are looking for jobs or customers who are trying to find candidates for those roles.

Laura Ainscough: How long have you guys been going?

Thomas Sampson: So Reed as a business has been running since 1960. Reed’s father Alec really created the recruitment agency, part of the business, which was where you can go into the shops and you can post roles or users can go in and look at the boards very much in that traditional style. Reed.co.uk has been running since the mid 90s 1995. Our DevOps and head of architecture came up with the idea of putting Reed on our website and bringing that to the business. And so since then, that’s been one of the foremost recruitment websites in the country.

Laura Ainscough: And your branding is all over the UK at the moment, isn’t it? I see everywhere I go.

Thomas Sampson: It’s been a large portion, of external media over the last year and a half to get more visibility to users.

Joshua Frank: So we’ve done TV ads again. So you’ll see those now. Some of the videos on demand and even some of the cinemas. We’ve got some advertising spots for those. And yeah, on some of those radios as well. So you’ll hear the tune.

Laura Ainscough: That song is catchy. Sure you sing it every Monday.

Thomas Sampson: We all have to come in and just sing it together.

Joshua Frank: Buses as well, obviously. Yeah, London Scene and some of the taxis as well. But they’ve rebranded. So yeah, a real push for the brand.

Laura Ainscough: I feel like whenever I come into Euston from Manchester, it’s there’s a huge sign when you go down to the underground. So never forget you guys. Yeah, it would be really good. Obviously we’ve been working together now for about six years as a partnership. And I suppose a good question for you guys would be just yeah, how that came about, and kind of why you needed that third party partnership.

Thomas Sampson: I think is a fairly typical story. We were, you know, a business that was looking to have really high ambitions and go through a period of growth. And so there were a number of partners that we reached out to work with on development, and ultimately, is that cost effective solution, so a number of heads and to help us to reach our ambitions with our initiatives and our strategic goals? For me, I think, having come into Reed.co.uk When we had three partners, I think it’s very clear how committed Godel were to the relationship. And you know, they’ve been the ones that have been the consistent partner throughout that. So it’s just a typical need to bring users in. Probably the journey has evolved since that point. They were bringing other expertise and other users. Whether it was an engineering support. Initially, we now have product managers. We have DevOps engineers, we have QA, we have architects support and so it’s really becoming a partnership rather than just a support basis.

Laura Ainscough: When we began first out It was actually Alex, who wasn’t in DevOps space. That’s correct. And that was kind of the starting point. And then we’ve just developed into your different streams within the business.

Joshua Frank: Yeah, I think it’s grown significantly as well. So you know, since we’ve been working together over the past few years, partnership has nearly doubled in size really. And last down, obviously, the great resources and passing that you guys have been providing us, and the growth in the projects and initiatives that we wanted to build out. And having that expertise from you guys. And then offering wider roles, as Tom mentioned, now, dipping into having some of the product managers on board and some other roles that are kind of to do with testing. So I like SDETs, and front end back end. And so really got that whole, I guess, built across the business from Godel. It’s not just one particular role, there’s multiple roles that you guys can provide. So hence why I think it’s been an ongoing partnership and will obviously continue going forward as well.

Thomas Sampson: I think initially, it was just bums on seats. But really, it’s about expertise and guidance. We value the opinion of the Godel engineers and go to a point of interest just as much as we would any internal opinion.

Laura Ainscough: And do you think that’s one of the reasons for the success of this partnership is obviously you kind of get to learn from our go to engineers and vice versa? Would you say that’s one of the key things?

Joshua Frank: Definitely. Because I think you know, where the flexibility from you guys working across multiple clients and industry, it’s great for them to bring in their expertise from other businesses and other areas into this business as well. So we can take a lot of learnings from the data engineers that come in or share their previous experiences, how previous companies have set certain things up. It really helps us to make sure we’re making the right decisions. And taking on insights from kind of an outside view as well as an internal view. As far as I said, it’s, it’s really useful. Yeah. And

Laura Ainscough: I think sometimes people question bringing in 3rd parties like ourselves, because of how your engineers are going to react and how that’s going to be embedded together and work collaboratively. Did you have any challenges with that? And if you did, what did you do to overcome them?

Thomas Sampson: I think we have had challenges in the past as you do with internal and external resource. And that can come from just the crash of personalities, or the quality of the work being delivered, I’d say, on the whole Godel has always been of a higher quality than other, partners that we’ve worked with. And certainly, working with yourself, you’ve always been more ready to respond to that feedback and to work with us to understand how we remediate that. Yeah, I mean, specific challenges, we go through a very difficult time with the mobile app. And I think, internally, we were struggling, to source that. And we weren’t necessarily in a position where we have the understanding of the platform in the way that we would have liked. Once we had established that with yourselves, we were making the progress we wanted. When we brought new engineers into the process, they were able to give that guidance. And I think it’s a really good example of where that partnership, rather than a certain leader approach enabled us to sort of move into to the next phase. And now we’ve got a really successful mobile app.

Joshua Frank: And I think it comes down to account management from yourself. And delivery management from Denis as well, like, yeah, we’ve got a real strong communication, where, I mean, this is a very rare case. But if any, anything significant comes up, what happens is dealt with within the hour, I would say, you know, any of the things that have come up for us, we’ve got a resolution in place, we’re quickly on quickly to react, jump on the calls. And all the steps are then in place for us to resolve whatever that issue was. So I think that’s down to you know, yourself and Dennis, always be in there to answer our calls if we need anything. And from the team, as long as they’re very, very active to change and also embedded in our strategy and aligned with what we’re doing.

So they’re as much a part of that routine, rather than here’s the Godel engineers, here’s the Reed engineers. They’re all part of the same team, essentially.

Thomas Sampson: I think a lot of the credit has goes to you as well, that I think you’ve really helped foster relationships.

Laura Ainscough: Yeah, I think you’re a key role to make this partnership work. And it’s that collaboration and real time feedback as well. And maybe just moving away from the actual collaboration, the partnership oversees, you know, I know that our engineers love working with Reed, because of the different projects are working on, you know, there’s such variety. And so I suppose it would be quite good to maybe learn a little bit about what projects you are working on. And the success of them as well. Yeah,

Joshua Frank: I can talk about the performance initiative because it’s obviously something that I’ve been working on since I joined. And that’s always been a mixed team of Godel and Reed engineers. Yeah. Well, actually, we had no engineers to start with what we wanted to do, and how we wanted to proceed, and then we took the decision to build our own performance platform internally. And with that, obviously, we needed some technical support to do so. So we had some support in the business that we needed. But obviously, we wanted to expand that team, as we knew it’s going to be a big opportunity and and a big job for us to do, you know, it wasn’t going to be an overnight build, it was going to take some time. So that’s obviously when we got in touch with you guys to grow the partnership in that area and bring on these engineers. And it’s probably been one of our kind of best success stories that we’ve had over the past two years to that team, you know, they really embedded together really well. There was no sense of like, you know, we’re doing this you’re doing this, it was for a fully embedded team. From the beginning, they understood what they need to do and understood the roles, and then was able to build a new platform, which is now the pay for performance platform. And this is one of the elements of the business, we’re really scaling up now, over this year, and next year, and hopefully, it will be for the foreseeable future, which is an a new way for customers to interact for free as a business as they pay on the applications that they get delivered rather than a fixed cost upfront. So this platform, needs to do that. And we’ve got, you know, loads of other pieces for that initiative to continue to scale up over the year. But yeah, that’s been down to a great partnership from the Godel team.

Thomas Sampson: I think what I’ve been most pleased to see with that is not only the team really invested in the roadmap, you know, delivering on time with Josh is here to be nagging them about make sure that they’re doing, they are just really invested in the commercial success of the platform as well. Yeah, every time Tanya, my product manager, they know we’ve got a new client, but we, you know, we’ve done this month, I’ve done this month and our revenue this month, they’re, they’re really excited to see that to see the fruits of their labours. I’m really confident as well, that with the challenges on the problem statements are coming out, but representative for the rest of the year that they are fully behind delivering that they can see the roots of success of of that platform.

And that’s across the board. I mean, when I first joined Reed, it was with the Shared Services team, which was exclusively a Godel based team. But then massively important for the success of all the other engineering teams support the shared services and support in the platform. So they’re bringing forward things like authentication, service, location, service, and map race, the messaging tool just enables us to operate and to keep the lights on and to run business as usual. The team are just so massively committed to that. And I think they just get the remit of that group of functionality or features that we want to run and how important it is to the business. And they become subject matter experts in that whenever there’s an issue over the weekend, however late at night, it is they’re just there to jump and to give that feedback. So yeah, it’s been amazing to see how invested they are, again, as a business and a successful company.

Joshua Frank: Yeah. And you see that, you know, when people just naturally move on, like, you know, it’s a big loss to us as a business like, yeah, and lost a huge amount of skill set. So you guys obviously replaced? Yeah, when someone has been working in the business for a long period of time, they’ve got so much knowledge on how everything’s working, or architecture are set up late. So it’s a loss for us when? Yeah, someone decided to move on as well. So, yeah, I’m gonna try to keep everyone here.

Laura Ainscough: And I suppose obviously, moving into 2024, can’t believe we’re nearly there. But I, you know, is there any kind of exciting projects that you’ve got coming up that you’re quite excited to see be developed? And yeah, hopefully released by the end of the year? Is there anything you can discuss? And delve into there?

Joshua Frank: Yeah, I think we can move back to the performance piece, because, as I said, we’re scaling up the platform at the moment, to build in new and new and exciting features. So the ability for customers to ingest jobs at bulk. So rather than doing it manually, one by one, they can ingest, you know, 1000s of jobs into a feed of the same team a lot of time and add in the jobs in and saved for the customer as well. We’re also looking to put our solution on E commerce as well. So it’d be an E commerce product, as well as you know, an account manage service. Yeah. So this is one of our I guess, the next big exciting thing for this team is to make this an E commerce proposition rather than just, you know, having to go through a sales network and it can’t manage to team. Yeah, that will be the big thing for that team.

Thomas Sampson: I can agree with that. From a job seeker perspective, we’ve got a fantastic AI team, they’re doing some really good things we’ve given more relevant and suitable recommendations to candidates. What’s really important for me is then how do we bring that to market for those users? And so our job seeker web & app teams are going to be spending the rest of the year making sure that those who get into users hands have recommendations like enabling them to see the jobs and the content that they want to see, as soon as they open up the app? In the morning, from the west side point of view, we’re going to be looking at increased applications, we’re going to be looking to increase the relevancy of those applications. So it’s really important that we’re focusing on over the second half of the year, you’re dropping those numbers in that quality in the right direction.

Laura Ainscough: Everyone’s talking about AI at the moment.

Thomas Sampson: AI is prominent within the industry. At the moment, I think a lot of people are unsure of what it’s going to do for recruitment right now. It’s clearly opportunity as much as it is a risk. So I think there’s some trepidation then, let’s make sure that we can hold our users hands and our customers’ answers, and navigate towards the right solution for them.

Laura Ainscough: I know you’ve won a couple of awards recently, as well. I know, we have our partnership, but not just us you guys have obviously, won some recently. So it’s just great that you’re being recognised in the industry, obviously, I think, you know, for listeners, and myself, you’re like, we’re Reed.co.uk. It’s a recruitment company. And actually, there’s so much behind that in technology and engineering. So it’s quite amazing that you’re getting, you know, recognised and actually winning awards as well, not just turning up to them. Because then did you recently win? Is it the DevOps?

Thomas Sampson: Yes, it was an architecture Award, which we won in October and an Award for the mobile app with Godel. I’d like to think that our performance proposition will start to get some recognition that we’re getting to use the sounds and scaling out to the wider audience. Yeah. Next year. So yeah, have some big ambitions for 2024.

Laura Ainscough: I suppose and also, what I’m quite keen to delve into is, obviously working with you guys. You know, you’ve got delivery, you’ve got product, you’ve got engineering, like a lot of companies have a lot of spinning plates isn’t there. And it’s, the key to success is trying to bring that together. And I suppose there’s maybe more for you, just as you are in the delivery space. But obviously, I’m sure you agree, your role is absolutely vital for that. But I suppose it’s been quite interesting to kind of hear how you do bring it all together, and maybe, you know, offer a bit of advice to our listeners as well.

Joshua Frank: When we’re setting up these initiative projects, programmes, or, you know, whatever we want to call them. At the start, our role is to bring everyone together, you know, understand from the beginning, what it is we’re trying to do, why we’re trying to do it, what actions or objections we’re looking at, to drive out of those to be a success for the business. Without that, and people not be in on the same journey, that’s when things start to get a bit all over the place, people start working in silos, people are getting distracted with other things. So having that the beginning, setting the scene and bringing everyone on the same journey is crucial for us to make sure the project is successfully delivered, as well as the line into our like programme delivery framework that we’ve got in place as a business. It’s been around probably since I’ve joined now for the first few years.

And then most recently, probably in the last six to seven months, we’ve now implemented a fully product development lifecycle as well, which Tom has worked closely on with Sam and a few other members across the business, and got that involvement from engineering architects. You know, the agile team coaches, to product managers, just so everyone is aligned on what that process is? I think without having a clear understanding of what it is why it’s in place, why we’re doing it, and people then kind of just want to do their own thing. Yeah. So ensuring that we’ve got, key documentation in place for everything. everything’s aligned, and feeding up into the same strategy, rather than everyone working on their own individual ones. Having that place in is, I guess, critical for success.

Laura Ainscough: I suppose Tom probably more to you, obviously, you’re now director of technology. And your role, obviously, is bringing products and engineering together. And I know a lot of people. What is the what is the magic recipe for that? I’m sure we’ve obviously there’s been on a rollercoaster of a journey and not just here, but for many companies and people are still struggling with that. But yeah. What’s your advice or and plan for that? Really? And yeah, if you have had any challenges, how you’ve overcome that, really?

Thomas Sampson: Yeah, I think it’s a really good question. I mean, you know, naturally, your products engineering, design, delivery, they’re almost like these magnets are pushing each other away. But yeah, we are just testing the pdlc. I think probably the best thing that we’ve done this year is to implement the product development lifecycle. I think it gives us a central point of focus and a framework through which anybody in the business can start to submit ideas and it’s really enabling the business to bring stuff forward that they think is an opportunity rather than perhaps products or engineering being this closed shop. I think he’s also helping us to avoid mistakes to make decisions based on priority and to engage the whole SLT and the rest of the business, in understanding that decision to be delivery is quite often misunderstood. And people see it as Yes, team that’s interfering, when actually they’re just there to enable us to make sure that we’re being aware of our risks and issues and working to mitigate those.

To me, really, it’s about that collaboration. It’s about bringing people in to understand that delivery there to be our friends. So they brought us there to make sure that we’re asking ourselves the right questions, and if there are issues that are there to help us resolve those issues. So I’ll be very much looking towards the engineering team as a half of the product team since I have been director of that department. So just make sure that they’re working with the delivery managers and involved in what they’re doing. Yeah, call them out for support when they need them and the engineering team are really open to that, that the pdlc building process for which we do that really nice process to make sure that we’re bringing stuff in and working through things accordingly together.

Laura Ainscough: And in regards to you kind of, do you have a lot of like, in regards to kind of monthly meetups, or you know how you actually show that visibility? Because, yeah, I mean, I hate being cheesy, but it is just saying that it is one team one goal, isn’t it? Sometimes it’s to share that. But how do you do it again?

Joshua Frank: Yeah, you know, it’s not a one size fits all answer. But we’re certainly for the initiatives that I had, they’re both run pretty differently. And that’s due to the teams. And it all comes down to how the team want this. Yeah. How do they want to be managed? What meetings do they want in place? How often do they feel that we should be meeting? Yeah, you know, that’s part of the collaboration on this set, and things like that the beginning is to get alignment. It’s not a dictatorship in terms of like, this is how we’re going to do it. Everyone follows suit. It’s like, you know, what, do we all think it’s gonna work together? Because, like it or not, we’re gonna have to work together now over however long this project.

So yeah, I think, you know, setting that with the team and understanding what their needs are, and being open to change it, because you know, what might work for the past few months you might need to make every day, you know, make sure everyone understands what they’re doing. And then obviously, as the projects or programmes that go, and you can then start to, you know, take a bit of a step back, because everyone is aligned to what they’re doing. And that’s cemented in. And then it’s just checking in making sure that everyone’s you know, doing what they need to be doing. If they have any significant, you know, RAID items or risks issues, assumptions, dependencies, it’s about picking those up early, and being proactive, rather than reactive. So you know, the team have that open space, that they can, you know, raise things if something is going wrong? I’d be a lot more comfortable to know, way, way before it’s gonna happen. They’re not, you know, I don’t worry about that. Just telling me if there is a problem, then at least it’s on my radar. And I can communicate with Tom and the rest of the team, just so they’re aware, you know, that no one likes to surprise. That’s the key thing, you know, making sure that everyone is on the same page at all times at all levels as well, when it comes to initiatives? Because, yeah, I mean, I mean, I’ve gotten a few slt sessions where I’ve just said, Oh, this is happening. And you know, everyone’s like, what’s going on here? Yes, you know, we need to make sure that we’re constantly communicating and having that right balance, so you don’t over communicate. But yeah, absolutely. We’ve got our strategy check ins, which I’ll answer period, which and we send updates to SRT every two weeks. So they’ve got we’ve again, that’s been a it’s a bit of a balancing act over the past few years and understand what’s the right level of information? How much information do they need or keep it so I feel like we’ve got a good balance now of communications, not just within the team, but outside the team.

Thomas Sampson: With the right information as well, because I’ve directed delivery will always attack me for having product fluff.  So it’s not quite as bad as you may find that we try to blur the lines, whereas I think the sessions now are much more targeted and focused on here are the things that are blocking us. And this is where we really need your help. So do we need to come back this afternoon in your deep dive session to get into the subject matter, or can you help us move things forward? So it’s about meeting those deadlines? And let’s date targets are we committed to rather than necessarily just like stuff that we’ve done.

Laura Ainscough: Because I think some companies don’t have a delivery division. And sometimes that has a debate in itself, isn’t it of why And when’s that needed? But I suppose introducing that into this organisation is obviously showing such a positive success. And it’s good to hear that and the examples as well for people to kind of take away because it’s probably not always been plain sailing. It won’t always be but it’s it’s trying to link it all together isn’t that so?

Joshua Frank: I think to Tom’s point, and it’s not happened here. So, but you know, sometimes when you go in as a delivery manager and people Sometimes things don’t have taken over from what we’re trying to do. And yes, we’ll mention it’s not the case is to be there for the team and make sure that, you know, the areas they need support on or a link someone in with this person to have this conversation, you know, we’re there to be there for everyone not just to deliver something for ourselves.

Laura Ainscough: Going a little bit off topic here, because I’m talking about this a lot at the moment about remote working and being in the office. And I think it just links in with communication. We live in a different world now of post COVID. There’s a lot of remote working, and we have working from home policies, which again, has its benefits and has its negatives, but I suppose how have you as an organisation kind of kept that communication up and aligned? Or is it still a bit of a struggle at the moment?

Thomas Sampson: It’s a very good question. Very political question. Yeah. Obviously, a number of companies are going back to the office. For them, they were certainly trains to be more busy. On my part, I like being in five days a week anyway. Yeah, since early 2020. But yeah, I think there’s no replacement for face to face conversation, I think it is hugely important, even if it’s just those incidental chats where you can gather around something and talk something over.

But in terms of remote work, I’ve always been used to that, Godel have always been really flexible with hours of working so make sure they can come at a meet since they’re within our business hours. And they’ve always been present, having their cameras on Yeah, being engaged in the conversation. So whilst it’s not ideal, it’s never really a blocker to getting stuff done. And that’s it. But I think the performance platform, as Josh was saying, is evidence that there’s very few people who are actually on site throughout that entire delivery, it is one of our most successful products of the last five or 10 years, I would say in terms of getting something to market.

Joshua Frank: Yeah, and I think you need to get these things, right. Like, at the end of the day, there’s people all over different locations, even in the UK now. Yeah. Yeah. Spread across the country. Yeah. You know, that the hybrid work and stuff. So I think for the meetings that you want to set in person you set in person, but again, it was seen working with you guys, people aren’t even based in the UK. Yeah. So that’s always going to be an element of it here of like, virtual sessions, meetings, because as much as we’d love to get all of the team into the room for these sessions all the time, this is probably not realistic to do that. So yeah, I’ve always got I have it a bit in the back of our minds. It’s always going to be this element. But yeah, things will change. But I think it’s working at the moment.

Laura Ainscough: I think a lot of countries are going through that at the moment when they have remote working from home and kind of bringing it all together. But yeah, I think when you turn your camera on, it always doesn’t make such a difference.

Joshua Frank: We promote, cameras on all times in the room be engaged, like, ask questions. Yeah. And that’s some of the feedback. You know, we’ve worked on yourself and Dennis with, you know, yeah, the team makes sure they feel like they’re comfortable to ask questions. And that’s something that we’ve obviously put in place now. And feel like you know, all of the team get involved and ask questions. Whenever then they don’t take a step back and think are cool. Like, I can ask anything. So having that environment of cameras on, you know, open conversation.

Laura Ainscough: Just moving on, I suppose about how we have been partnered now for six years, what do you think, you know, saying that successful? I suppose it’s more like long term. We’ve always been through ups and downs, like any partnership or any company, but I suppose one for you, Tom, is what do you think the key to the success have been?

Thomas Sampson: I think for me, it has just been that partnership and that commitment to the partnership. There’s never really been an occasion where we’ve had an incident and you guys are gonna hide in there happy to be the subject matter experts and things. And I think that just comes from the leadership within Godel and think about just filters down throughout the whole thing. We’re talking about that. We’re talking about a culture sessions beforehand. I think that’s a really good example of where, you know, we want to understand how to work with these engineers and suggestions or other ways of working. Yeah, what can we do to accommodate you as much as you’re been willing to accommodate us? So really has been a branch of equals.

Joshua Frank: I think working closely with yourself and Dennis, you know, and were both new to the partnership when I joined that you come on board, just before I thought to work out, you know, what are our ways of working that we want to work together on? How often do we need to communicate what the channels that we need to be, you know, discussing topics and things on and the onboarding process. I think that was key, you know, making sure that when a new Godel member comes on board, what are all the things that they need to, you know, be set up on? Yeah, but how even, you know, things, however long before do we notify the team that there’s a new person coming on tonight, you know, working through all of that process, I think we’ve now got it kind of down to a tee where everyone understands our full onboarding journey, what they need to do you know, how the first week all work? Yeah. Who they need to speak to in the first week. So I think working together in that way, it’s really helped shape the Partnership for for success, because now there’s again, there’s no surprises of this person just cropped up. Or there’s a new person that’s asking to join this meeting, but I don’t even know there’s new person starting and I don’t even know they’ve started, so you know.  To take it a step back, as we did and looking at our case or what are the things that we can do to work on that. And obviously Dennis has been a great help with that as well and working with the engineers for the 121 basis you know and understand, you know, honest feedback from them as well.

You know, we don’t want and to be a one way street where we give you guys feedback and get nothing back from. They need to be voiced in any of their concerns, their opinions, or if they think something could be run better then you know to raise that and if they don’t, we’re comfortable, you know, going straight to someone and Reed. They’ve got yourself a Dennis to go down to it, and then we addressed that and then, you know, go to whoever we need to go to another business to switch that and resolve it.

Thomas Sampson: Yeah, I think we have those friendships as well, though we’ve had engineers that have gone out on holidays and weekends just to visit your team.

Laura Ainscough: And I think the boys are guys feel you’ve got this culture that shines out quite quickly when they are being boarded and they can kind of feel like that team, and I think sometimes they feel which is the way it should be really.

And I think we are asking this to a lot of our podcast guests, but if you could describe the partnership with Godel in three words, you can be as honest as you’d like to be. We’ll start with you, Josh.

Joshua Frank: 3 words I’d say flexible, collaborative and successful because you know we’ve done a lot of successful things over the years and hopefully we’ll continue to do so.

Thomas Sampson: Innovative, I think your team have all responded to new, different ways of solving problems and to cover things from a different angle and always welcome those opinions. Collaborative, that partnership, that whole feeling of this is one team. And I think for me, committed, but just that.

You really feel like the Godel guys commit to the success of the business and work to do what they can to invest in that and to bring it forward together.

Laura Ainscough: This is both your first podcast would you do this again? Is this your new found career?

Joshua Frank: We’ll have to see

Laura Ainscough: That’s obviously the first video one as well. Yeah, it’s been great. So, yeah, thank you both so much for coming on today. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Absolutely Naturals. See you and thank you so much.

Outro

Laura Ainscough: Huge thank you to all the listeners out there who’ve listened to this instalment of the Godel pods. If you like what you hear and would like to know when we’re releasing even more episodes, please just subscribe to the Godel page on Podbean or Spotify.